Tawtheeq of Muhammad Ibn Jabir & Research Raf’ul Yaden Athar

Researching an Athar of Hazrat Abdullah ibn masud found in Sunan Daraqutni on NOT raising hands during Salah and Tawtheeq of Muhammad ibn Jabir, narrator of this Athar.

research done by Asad Al Tahawi from Pakistan all credits goes to him. like his page to get more updates and new researches. link below:


In this whole article I wont move an inch from Usool-Jarh-Wa-Tadeel In Shaa Allah. And in this post, If Allah Wills, you will see just HOW TOUGH(actually its toughest) THE SCIENCE of JARH AND TA’DIL IS!!! This is not for newbies or wanna be internet scholars, you will see it soon.

i will not be writing this article in a professional manner as this would be hugely time consuming. So I will only make my points and i will(if really needed) provide some basic info as well wheres its needed. This article is actually a kind of refutation for those who cant fall asleep without degrading and mocking great scholars of Ahlus Sunnah. I, as a muslim, believe that there’s absolutely NO NEED to fight over issues like Raful Yaden/raising hands during salah. the whole Ummah, except for some sects including self claimed ahlul hadith or wahhabis is united and agrees that 4 imams are correct in their rulings and those muslims who cant perform Ijtihad must follow any one of them. I will try to prove that the athar mentioned in Sunan of Daraqutni is SAHIH regarding not raising during salah before/after ruku.

*dont ask for useless references this post not for children, if you dont know whats written where, then you shouldnt be here in the first place- main purpose is to prove that Hanafi method of Salah is perfectly according to AHADITH!*

why I decided to post this?

I think this will also give you an overview of what usool is and how jarh wa tadeel is done. This one post is interesting enough. This narrator has narrated a lot of athar and ahadith mentioning the abrogation of raf’ul yaden after first takbeer and that is why wahhabi do jarh on him but they are wrong and their claims are all false and fake. i think there are around 130+ turq/chains on abrogation of raf’ul yaden coming from many Sahabis specially hazrat umar, ibn umar, abu bakr, ali, abdullah ibn masud radiallahu anhum wa alaihumussalam. We already have sahih hadiths + the sahih hadith narrated by Imam muhammad r.a in his Kitab Al Hujja.

The athar is:

Sayyiduna Abdullah Ibn Mas’ud stated, ‘I prayed behind the Prophet, Abu Bakr and Umar alaihimussalam and they did not raise their hands except at the beginning of the salah.’ as found in Sunan Daraqutni 112.


Jarh is done on this 1 narrator named Muhammad ibn Jabir but little do they know that his weakening isnt Mutlaq/totality. those who are aware of Usool Jarh wa tadil will know that if someone says so and so is weak it doesnt actually mean that he is 100% weak. some great authorities might say he is Thiqa or even greater in rank.

Sometimes a narrator is called Weak because he starts losing his memory as he ages but this same narrator who is now being called weak was once Thiqa and this happens many times so its not a rare case and those who are aware of Usool will get my point in an instant. This is called Ikhtilat.

another example is of Ibn Lahiyya(i think i’m right in naming him may Allah forgive me if I’m wrong), he was thiqa when he had his books with but when all of them were burned in an incident he became weak in narrating ahadith. So a weak narrator doesnt mean he is weak in ALL CASES. another example is:

sometimes a narrator is called weak and his hadiths will be listed among Daeef/weak hadiths when he narrates from his memory but when this same narrator(conditions apply) narrates from his book he will be called thiqa.

Research on Muhammad Ibn Jabir Hadith Narrator

this athar which i have mentioned above can be found in many books but i think originally in 2 sunans:
1. Sunan Daraqutni 112 – 2. Sunan Abu Yaala 5039

chain of narration goes like:

حضرت عبداللہ بن مسعود => ابراھیم النخعی => امام حماد بن ابی سلیمان => محمد بن جابر => امام اسحاق بن ابی اسرائیل بیان

In Shawahid, this chain is AT LEAST HASSAN if not SAHIHImam Turkmani r.a stated that this chain is JAYYAD.

1. Jarh of Imam Bukhari and its answer is below:

Imam Bukhari r.a says he is Laisa Bi Qawwi and in another place he says he is weak.

we have to understand a point here, Imam bukhari called him weak because of his weak memory. But as I have already mentioned above, this Jarh is not in totality BECAUSE Imams Ibn Adi, Abu Zur’a, Abu hatim and Ibn Sa’ad have clarified that all those narrations he narrated when he was in Yamama, they all are SUDOOQ. and other Muhadditheen have also clarified that he had  SAHIH books of ahadith as well.

2. Jarh of Imam Ahmad ibn hanbal r.a and its answer is below:

he stated “only those who are more irreligious/evil than him, narrate from him” even tho we know Imam Ahmad stated this, but its completely wrong and the people of knowledge will know this in an instant once they read what Imam Ibn Adi r.a has to say:

Imam Ibn Adi replies to Imam Ahmad in his Al Kamil Vol 8 Page 430
(الکامل ابن عدی جلد ۷ ، ص ۴۳۰)

Senior/great muhadditheen like Imam Ibn Uyaina, Sufyan Thawri, Imam Sha’wba, Imam Hisham bin Hassam and the likes of Imam Ayyub narrates from Muhammad ibn jabir and if he is really that bad(like imam ahmad said) then why are these senior muhadditheen narrating form him?. hence, imam ahmad’s jarh is rejected.(all according to Usool) because if we accept imam ahmad’s jarrah on him, then we will also have to accept the likes of two sufyan and other gream imams were all shareer(jarrah word) and evil maazallah.(clearly imam ahmad is mistaken here)

One more thing to notice here is if you are paying attention you would know that Imam ahmad’s r.a jarrah on him is Mutlaq/totality and he has also done jarrah on his books, he says his books were lost. he is again mistaken here. because this proves that he was not of aware what imam ibn adi, imam abu hatim, ibn mubarak and imam abu zur’a wrote regarding his books, they all clarified that he had his books with him when he was in Yamama and all narrations coming from Yamama will be accepted because he had his books, obviously. this is one of the many Ta’deels(commendations) you will find in any Usool book.

3. Jarrah of Imam Ibn Hibban and its answer is below:

before we continue there’s an Usool I would like to mention here and that is: any Imam who is severe in Jarrah(narrator disparagement) and if he is alone in doing jarrah on any narrator, then his jarrah will be REJECTED COMPLETELY.

Imam ibn hibban r.a writes, “his books were mixed with those narrations that werent his own, his narrations were stolen and he would narrate mixed in fabricated narrations like they are his own.(I think he is trying to say that people tampered with his books)

Ans: first of all, this jarrah is coming from an Imam who is severe in his Jarrah and on top of that Ibn Adi has already clarified to us regarding his books. so compared to the Ta’dil/Praise of Ibn Adi, Imam ibn hibban’s jarrah is nothing. And, if we were to accept his Jarrah for a second then it still wouldnt mean anything because when he was in YAMAMA, his books were ALL SAHIH. moving on.

His jarrah is on a kind of Sudooq narrators and that is absolutely why 2 of the great authorities have written regarding ibn hibban: Ibn Hajar Asqalani and Imam Zahbi writes:

“Sometimes ibn hibban would make such jarrah on thiqa and sudooq narrators that even his pen(head) would have no idea what is he writing”

4. Jarrah of Imam Al Haythami r.a and it’s answer is below:

His position in this case is completely clear and he himself has stated his position in his famous work known as Al Majma Az Zawaid.

he says: there’s a lot of difference regarding him, He is SUDOOQ(just as we are trying to prove) and he also had SAHIH books but his memory became weak/bad as he aged and would also accept corrections.(it’s known as TALQEEN, not a good thing)

Source: Majma Az Zawaid Hadith under hadith 3367 Kitab As Salah

5. Abdur Rahman Bin Mahdi’s Jarrah and it’s answer:

So you should know it before hand, abdur rahman bin mahdi only narrates from Thiqa(SAHIH NARRATORS) and he is also a student of Muhammad bin Jabir. 🙂 he also heard from his SAHIH books he took Hammad’s narrations from him as well. this should be enough but i’ll mention more of it.

Imam Ibn Adi writes (الکامل ابن عدی جلد 7 صفحہ 329):

Abdullah ibn mubarak r.a came to muhammad bin jabir when he was narrating Hadiths(to his students) in Makka 168Hijri, ibn mubarak said, Ya shaikh, narrate to me from your book. upon hearing it, Muhammad ibn jabir asked, who is he? his students replied he is Abdullah ibn Mubarak so he sent him his books, Muhammad abdur rahman ibn mahdi used to ask abdullah ibn mubarak for his Hadiths and he would stay silent.(silence is agreement) two of the greatest Huffadh  trusted him along with many others.

6. Imam yahya ibn maeen’s Jarrah and its answer is below:

Imam Zahbi r.a has counted this great and ameer ul mominen fil hadith in Mutashaddid & Muta’ant category of Ilm Ur Rijaal Experts. Pseudo muhaddith and kharji dog, Zubair zai did the same btw.

Yaha ibn Maeen r.a says: Laisa Bi Shai and ولکنہ عمی واختلط علیہ۔

Those with knowledge in the science of jarh wa tadeel would know that near to Imam yahya ibn maeen, Laisa bi shai isnt any jarrah. tho its normally used for Jarh but yahya’s case is different just like others. there are many muhadditheen who differ with the wording used for Jarh.

Ibn qittan has already clarified that when yahya says laisa bi shai(he is nothing) it doesnt mean he is weakening narrator. and in second place he mentions is memory loss when he aged but this is none of our concern as we have already clarified that the hadith he is narrating was from his book and not from his memory.

7. Abu hafs ibn shaheen jarh and its answer is below:

he has mentioned him in his Tarikh Al Dua’fa Wal Kazzabeen Wal Mutrikeen and says Laisa bi shai + Laisa Hadithi huma bi shai.

as we have already mentioned and clarified above that these types of Jarrah will have no affect on the narrator because it’s agreed upon thing that he had his memory become weak as he aged but before that he was good, and used to narrate from his books and this is, as already mentioned above, is a special kind of Narrator commendation and to invalidate it you would need kinda special or very specific jarrah.

we must also not forget that Mutashaddid/severe imams have praised him and in from their praise, this jarh is totally discarded and Mardood.

8. Umar bin Ali’s jarrah and it’s answer is below:

before i write any thing know one thing, Imam Umar bin Fallas is not considered as big authority when comparing with the likes of abu zur’a, yahya, ibn mahdi, abdullah ibn mubarak and ibn adi etc. and he has said the same thing, Kathir ul Wahm but he also called him SUDOOQ. he has done Jarrah Mufassar on him but as we have already clarified this will have no affect because we all already know his weak memory problem.

9. Yaboon Bin Sufyan Faswy’s jarrah and its answer:

he calls him weak, but the problem is he merely called him weak with nothing to back his claim, and these types of jarrah are known as Jarh Mubham, and we have Ta’deel Khaas on Ibn Jabir so Ta’deel Khaas is preferred over jarh mubham. in short, this jarrah can not be accepted.

10. Imam Zahbi’s jarrah and it’s answer is below:

he mentions ibn jabir in his Diwan Ad Dua’fa and then says:

he had weak memory and abu hatim r.a(keep note that hs is severe in his jarrah) stated that he prefers ibn jabir over ibn lahiyya.(it means he liked ibn jabir more). basically, he made Tawtheeq of ibn jabir.

Imam zahbi has already stated in his Siyar A’lam al-Nubala that: if imam abu hatim makes tawtheeq of someone, stick tightly to him.

11. Imam Ajli’s Jarrah and it’s answer:

He merely stated that he was weak, but this isnt enough. Jarrah mubham will be discarded out rightly. read above lines, his commendation can not be discarded by this jarrah mubham.

12. Imam Abu Zur’a called him weak or praised him?

I didnt want to bring it up, but i want to tell you something, Wahhabis, salafis and self claimed mujtahids ahlul hadith kharjis, spread lies, they hide ibn jabir’s praise and just show Jarrah upon him and this is totally not right. this is called LYING. but why? whats their purpose? its simple! only so they can make fun of Imam Al Azam Abu Hanifa r.a and his followers all Hanafis. their hatred for Abu hanifa r.a is clearly seen from their books. there are some wahhabis who openly call abu hanifa r.a was a kafir maazallah summa maazallah. i.e albaani, this dog of hell compared Hanafi fiqh with gospel of christians astagfirullah. moving on.

his jarrah comes from Seegha majhool and he has simply written what other muhadditheen said regarding ibn jabir but in the end he praised him as has been mentioned above. Imam ibn abi hatim states that he asked his father and abu zura what do you think of ibn jabir? they replied:

SUDOOQ and better than ibn lahhiya.

13. Imam ibn abi hatim called one of his chains “Munkir” & its reply:

actually there’s a little mistake ibn abi hatim has made. in that specific chain, there are two narrators with the same name. 1 is muhammad ibn jabir and 2nd is muhammad ibn jabir al harith and he is a Kazzab narrator(forger) and he mistakenly made jarrah on muhammad ibn jabir instead of this forger al harith(actually he completely ignored al harith). Yes, even the big authorities made mistakes or what do you make of imam bukhari r.a when he mistakenly called abu hanifa r.a a murja’i? even the most sahih narrators could make mistake and this is one from them. also, there’s no clarification where did he narrate it? was it makka or yamama? nobody knows! in the end Ibn Abi Hatim’s commendation prevails! (note: being munkir ul hadith and narrating a munkir, there’s a lot of difference here open some books wahhabis!)

14. Imam Ibn Khaythma never made any jarrah on ibn jabir, case closed for him.

15. Muhammad Zahid Al Kawthari did jarrah?

No. he didnt make any jarrah on him and simply stated what Imam ahmad ibn hanbal r.a said regarding ibn jabir. what must be understood here, jarrah mutlaq is a different thing and someone becoming a weak narrator as he ages is a different thing as explained above. so even muhammad zahid al kawthari r.a’s case is same and doesnt affect his truthfulness when he was in Yamama.

16. hhh ibn qayyim is at it again lol

nobody cares about this guy but for the sake of this post, lets have a look. actually, i wont waste my time with his lame grading. yare yare. lets not waste our time on the likes of ibn qayyim.

17. muhammad bin tahir al-maqdi put his narration in fabrications & it’s answer:

Blindly following above mentioned lame grader ibn qayyim, he put his non raf’ul yaden narration is his Moudu’aat. there’s not a single narrator in this chain of non raf’ul yaden narration who has ever been accused of lying yet he still called it a forged narration. Albaani, wahhabi’s favorite banana, called ibn jabir weak but still graded the narration as hassan because of the shawahid.

18. Imam Suyuti r.a did jarrah? answer below:

no he didnt do any jarrah on ibn jabir but he still put his narration is his Ahadith al mou’dua actually, he put this narration in his book inly so he could refute ibn jawzi imam suyuti r.a even mentioned his chains found in tirmizi and Nasa’i and he also mentioned his Tawtheeq from experts.

19. Imam Zayla’i and his jarrah? lie exposed

wahhabis say that Imam Zayla’i al hanafi weaken this narrator but this is a terrible and a half baked lie because:

Imam zayla’i says: best decision regarding ibn jabir is of Imam ibn adi and this is with details has been mentioned above. in short, even he considers him a SUDOOQ narrator. one more thing, he says Ahlul Ilm called him weak, and ahlul lilm is = Seegha majhool.

Fake self claimed Ahlul Hadith claim that Ishaq bin abi israel narrated after ibn jabir died. lol carry on pseudos, this is what we expect from you anyways. dont worry shitheads, i’ll make sure i have put scan page of your albaani banana grading his narrations as hassan because of shawahid. btw you should check At Tabaqat Al Kubra ص 353 7  -a- الجرح و تعدیل ، جلد 7 ص 219

20. Shu’aib Arna’ut did jarrah on ibn jabir? answer below:

Nope he didnt, he simply stated in his Hashiya of Taqreeb Ut Tahzeeb what muhadditheen regarding him and you, we, we all accept that his memory became weak as he aged but this has no affect on his praise and his SAHIH BOOKS when he was in YAMAMA!!!!! keep this in mind WAHHABIS!! RETARDED WAHHABIS KEEP READING!

How Zubair zai kharji dog fooled his own followers and ahlul hadith lol

Btw, i have a lot article to write in refutation of fake muhaddith zubair zai so stay tuned.

in his book Nasr Al Baari 241, zubair zai the kharji, TOTALLY ACCEPTED that ibn jabir is THIQA!! can you believe it! okay but why? why would he accept him as a thiqa narrator? let me tell you! simply because he narrated this:

Imam Abu Hanifa stole books of Hammad from me! lol! so it was Fard on zubair zai to call this narration as sahih because it simply goes against abu hanifa and ahnaaf! haha! but wait open his book Noor Ul Ainen and see that zubair zai mentioned 20 muhaddithen doing jarrah on ibn jabir, because he was narrating non raf’ul yaden narration lol! when anything goes against wahhabis, it becomes a forgery or weak, and when it fits them ALL SAHIH!!! good going to hell zubair zai kharji!!

so according to zubair zai, this narration of daraqutni of non raf’ul yaden is sahih all ghair muqallid show die from shame now. and yes, a lot of articles are coming in refutation. in one place zubair zai called imam abu yusuf weak, but when he narrated something against imam abu hanifa he called him sahih. lol why?! who so much hate?!

Tawtheeq of Muhammad Ibn Jabir is all given below:



1. Imam ibn abi hatim: he was sudooq when he was in yamama.

2. Imam abu zur’a: same as above

3. imam fallas says: SUQOOD but makes many mistakes(its obvious because thats literally what happens when memory becomes weak)

4. thiqa muhaddith, imam ishaq ibn abi israel after narrating this, says our act is upon this narration(of ibn jabir) as mentioned in Daraqutni.

5. ibn hajar asqalani in his Taqreeb writes: he is SUDOOQ and his books were lost and his memory had become weak.

6. imam ibn adi’s  saying as mentioned above

7. Imam Zohli says: theres no harm in him.

8. imam turkmani called his chain of narration JAYYAD.(dont throw ugly stuff at me, he authenticated all of the narrators of his munfarid chain)

9. imam abdullah ibn mubarak narrated from him.

10. imam abdur rahman ibn madhi r.a’s saying as mentioned above

11. Imam Jaarood has taken is narration in his Al Muntaqa, please wahhabis tell me why is this worth mentioning 😀 they might never tell you! anyways he classed him as THIQA.

12. Imam abul waleed writes: we made a mistake by not narrating from him(while he was SUDOOQ)

13. Imam Suyuti r.a destroying ibn qayyim, it’s Tawtheeq.

14. Imam mulla ali qari refuted ibn qayyim.

15. Imam shafii r.a narrated from him in his Kitab Al umm and extracted/deduced ruling from it.

16. Imam abu Dawood writes: on one of his narrations he says imam sufyan and imam Sho’ba has narrated it from ibn jabir and even wahhabis know that imam sho’ba only narrated from thiqa.

17. i am not listing kharji zubair zai here!

18. imam zahbi mentioning imam ibn abi hatim’s saying regarding ibn jabir in his Al Kashif.

19. imam tahawi r.a narrated from him and didnt do any jarrah on him.(shrah maani)

total 19 Muadhitheen have praised him. there’s no need to fight over raf’ul yaden.

May Allah forgive me for any mistake i made in this post aameen.

2 thoughts on “Tawtheeq of Muhammad Ibn Jabir & Research Raf’ul Yaden Athar

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